Gordon Brown promises to listen and lead


Gordon Brown - Crown copyright Reacting to the local election results Gordon Brown said that he would “listen and lead”.

“First of all I congratulate all those who have been successful in being elected as Labour councillors and say how sad I am about those Labour councillors who have done a tremendous job, fought a very hard campaign and have been unsuccessful.

“It’s clear to me that this has been a bad night for Labour. We have lessons to learn and then we will move forward. My job is to listen and to lead and that is what I will do.”

“We face testing economic circumstances with rising fuel and food bills and uncertainty about mortgages and about bank lending.

“People want to be assured that the government will steer them through these tough times.

“Over the next few months it will become clear that the decisions that we have made to help people on mortgages, food and fuel bills, and the decisions we made about the future of the economy will see the economy through. We are preparing the economy for the upturn and for prosperity to follow."
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Message posted by Noel at 2009-09-28 12:25:28
Be Radical & Win the Election - (1) £12 an hour minimum wage. First year funded via quantitative easing. Subsequent years by employers. ADVANTAGES - eliminate bank bad debts on small loans and mortgages; reduce child poverty; increase tax collections; enrage old Tories; Re-distribute some wealth. (2) Stop Loan Sharks (e.g. a low paid cleaner was today 28 Sept 09 offered £800 loan at 46%). Put a legal cap on of 10% over base rate. (3) Befriend Motorists - 25 Million voters. Stop harrasing drivers; clear the roads of all useless, worthless obstacles and spies. (4) Tax all bounuses - packages over £150,000 - at 90% tax. (5) Instant Public Beheading for litter-louts.
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Message posted by Steve at 2008-05-14 08:29:02
WELL DONE GORDON!!! You've got my vote back - you've done the right thing with that £120.
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Message posted by Colin at 2008-05-09 13:17:48
I think this was an important learning experience - but I'm sure that Gordon's the man to turn this around
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Message posted by Trevor at 2008-05-07 06:35:38
As a lifelong Labour member and activist there are so many things which make Labour unelectable but I will mention just two.

Post office closures - how can a Labour government vote to close a further 2500 post offices and at the same time spend billions propping up Northern Rock. Post offices are the lifeblood of many rural communities and used by many Labour voters who are now voting for the Tories. The first step is to replace the post office services taken away such as pension and benefit payments and TV License payments. The BBC are no friends of Labour - make it a requirement for TV Licenses to be issued through post offices. Yes, some post offices may need subsidies but money well spent in comparison to bailing out Northern Rock Investors.

Law and order.

Proper sentencing by the Courts and an end to early release. Tackle Knife crime - a compulsory maximum 5 year term for carrying a knife without parole. Yes- the prison population will rise in the short term but will be an effective deterrent and send a clear message.

Come on Labour - get a grip, time is running out for this tired Labour government under Brown. Maybe we deserve a term or two in opposition to get back the fire in our bellies to develop effective and fair social policies.
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Message posted by James Alan at 2008-05-10 22:38:36
Trevor the thought of David Cameron on the steps of no. 10 on the day after the next election pretending to care for the vulnerable in our country should concentrate the minds of all Labour supporters!To win in 2010 we need to unite and concentrate our fire on the Tories,not carp on the sidelines and play to Tory propaganda.I would like to suggest a four point plan to get Labour re-elected1.Make it crystal clear to everybody affected by the abolition of the 10p rate how they will be compensated.2.Revise the plan on vehicle excise duty,so that it only becomes effective on brand new cars and is not backdated to 2001.3.Target David Cameron.He has systematically attacked Gordon Brown at every opportunity and proved the point that if you keep repeating the same charges mud will stick.Mr Cameron is a walking policy free zone,totally out of touch with the ordinary man in the street and we need to exploit this.I honestly don't think this should be too difficult!4.Elections are won on the economy.The Prime Minister was widely regarded as one of the best chancellors of modern times by most independent commentators and if the economy starts to improve in the next 2 years I think Labour will get the credit.In contrast can anybody tell me what the Conservative economic policy is?answer:they do not have one!P.S one last observation.8 months ago Labour were 11 points ahead in the polls and people were saying the Conservative party were heading for oblivion!May 2010 may look very different to the political landcape of today!
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Message posted by Scott James at 2008-05-06 18:22:50
Every time I come onto this web page, to see if there are any more comments posted - I see more and more evidence of people who have been lifelong loyal Labour voters, say that the Party has betrayed the traditional, "core" Party voters, the ordinary people of this country who have to work long, hard shifts (I myself often have to do 12 hour shifts EVERY day at the warehouse I work) and it seems to me that the general consesus is that, people who are in my social class, the grassroots Labour voters, seem to think that Labour has stabbed them in the back and so they will never vote for the Pary again. While I don;'t agree with this, I accept that because this is the consensus, then the Labour Party has to really start addressing this issue or we're in for CERTAIN doom at the next general election...and that won't change before 2010...I can gaurantee the election of a Tory government if Labour doesn't appear to be, in fact, "Labour". We in the Party have to mould new policies which come acroos as, and indeed would be, policies of "fairness and social justice", since Gordon Brown, our leader, believes in this. As you said, Alan, if our government continues to tax tax tax, then again, this will contribute to certain failure, and it will take a very, very long and hard time to make the Labour Party electable ever again. If the Brown government continues what people percieve, possibly to an extent quite righly (I suppose) the persecution of it's very own loyal voters, then we can say goodbye to power after 2010 either for a long time indeed or forever (and end up like the Old Liberal Party). I feel sick of repeating myself, and hope not to feel the urge to have to post on here again (I always end up writing essays!) but it's so important now that our Party addresses what the electorate, as well as the nation, is saying. In every government there will always be unpopular policies, anybody who thinks a government, even a Labour one, should be perfect, are living in a bizarre fantasy world and need their heads looking at by a special doctor. We can't have EVERY good thing we want. But yes, I agree with the consesus on here; lets think of popular policies - win the people back. Show we are that Party of fairness and social justice, not one that penalises people for being low-wage earners (come on these are often people who have to graft long shifts on overtime so that they can feed their children) - lets move forward positively and we won't go down the same road as John Major and his Party did. I believe we can show that we are the only Party fit to govern this new, modern Britain (yes, I accept, where this is an ever-increasing middle class population), a Party that will look after EVERYBODY not just a wealthy few which is what the Tories believe in doing. Under Blair we were so popular and our support was booming (I admit until the whole Iraq thing kicked off) because we introduced policies of fairness and ones which protected workers (let me spell it out to the bone idle: people who have to work for a living) lets continue to do so. I finally rest my case, I hope !
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Message posted by Steve at 2008-05-05 20:56:35
I think Labour will need to offer something drastic in order to get re-elected.

How about a grab for the UKIP and a share of the Conservative voters by offering a referendum on our E.U membership? This will help show that the people of this country still have a certain amount of say about what happens in it.

A lot of people do feel wrongly treated about E.U Constitution/Treaty no-vote and would only trust Labour again if the addressed this issue.
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Message posted by James at 2008-05-05 18:41:13
Presentation? - It certainly is, but the problem is that the facade presented reflects reality. The problem isn't noit listening - but that's part of it. The problem is that the front bench (and a good proportion of the back benches) have got to believing that they have the absolute right to be where they are - what happened to the shy, earnest people accepting their first cabinet positions in 1997? - They are now the hectoring, nannying faceless crowd running the Government.
What is needed is a wholesale review of people in front bench positions. A dive to bring people with real life experience into the cabinet would be a good start. And for God's sake, stop looking earnest and blaming the world economic situation - it's the same situation for the Tories, and the governmental attitude is giving them a free ride. If it helps, try to remember how awful it felt after the 1992 election - because if you don't sort yourselves out, you've got 15 years worth of that to come.
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Message posted by Alan at 2008-05-05 18:16:17
I am an ex-party member, I stopped my subscription 2 years ago as all I heard on the radio was annying and coercion. It has not only not stopped since then, it has increased to an amazing degree! We are being punished for doing anything that Labour decide is disagreeable to them, there is NO recognition of the idea of personal responsibility at all, we are all treated as naughty little schoolkids. What's more, we aren't even being consulted, it seems to me that the process is to seek ideas from 'stakeholders' who most of the time consist of single-interest groups specially selected for their guaranteed support for whatever crackpot curtailing of our lives that has been proposed.

Plus, I've just found out that my family's modest 2004 Vauxhall Zafira will be required to pay over £400 for road tax whilst simultaneously being pursued for every penny we have for parking by our local authority, as well as being monitored at every turn by CCTV to make sure we don't step out of line, even accidentally, for even a second. Tax, tax and more tax seems to be the solution when funds are low thanks to the unrealistic spending that Gordon has been taking credit for for the past few years.

I'm also more than disappointed that some Labour supporters here can't recognise the terrible damage the smoking ban has had on our support. I am a committe member at a British Legion Club in Surrey and I can attest to the fact that is a huge factor in the minds of our members, there is barely a day goes by without someone mentioning it and linking it with the Labour Party. It has undoubtedly cost Labour very dear. Seeing as smoking is more predominant in the working classes, and that there are so many of them, it is electoral suicide to be the party that imposes such a comprehensive ban on so many of those that would have normally voted for them! There had to be a better way of preserving public health than that, it's just so over-the-top.

I was alerted to this site by one of the bar staff in our club so let me give you a little example of what has happened where we are. Being a British Legion Club, in November of every year we hold a dinner for ex-servicemen, but in Nov 2007 the attendance was over 40% down on previous years. We were hit at New Year too as we had paid out for the usual band but attendance was less than half what would be usually expected, a majority decided they could enjoy themselves more at house parties where there were no nannying restrictions. Our membership dropped by 35% in January and we have lost 80% of our darts teams as we have no chance of offering a good place for smokers due to our location and restrictions from the local council. This is in a southern area where Labour don't have much representation, so I dread to think how the Labour vote is being decimated in strong Labour working areas in the north etc. We have a large area of prime land and I can only see that the future will see the place being sold off for 'executive' apartments, the sort most traditional Labour voters could only dream about owning. It's a bloody mess and is dividing the country down class lines more than ever before. And a LABOUR government are responsible! Quite incredible.

I don't smoke, but I hear the grumbles on a regular basis, so I KNOW this is an issue. The abolition of the 10% tax band was just a final very sharp nail in the coffin of Labour, and those I have spoken to say they will NEVER vote Labour again, which is very worrying.

I couldn't bear to vote for another party and feel it is necessary to vote in some manner so I spoiled my ballot paper as I could not envisage voting for such a party that treats its people with such contempt.

Mr Brown, you are a nice man, but I sincerely believe that you and your cohorts will never listen to us, only the selected people that agree with your skewed way of looking at the country.

Get out of the trendy wine bars Labour and listen to your core voters or you will NEVER form a government again.
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Message posted by Shajimon at 2008-05-05 17:51:01
I am a party member for last 4 years.the recent election result,that may Ethinic communitys are changed their mind becuase of the immplementation of new immigration laws.an example of the indian community,majority of this community they are very well contributing to the public and taking less benifits.it was very clear that recent immigration laws are a kind of discrimination to the non eu and eu communitys.most of the immigrants are suffering lot because of this loose decision made by the executives.
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Message posted by Chris at 2008-05-05 14:53:55
I am so dissapointed with your leadership Gordon.
It seems more and more obvious that Mr Blair had a very tight reign on you when you were chancellor.
All I see now is the persecution of the people that a low wage earners,those who live and work in rural areas and also those of us who own and run small businesses.
My fuel for my vehile (yes it is a 4x4 Land Rover Discovery) but I could not get to some of my clients without the vehicle.
I do all my own vehicle maintenance.On a "BRITISH MADE VEHICLE". My vehicle to me represents true British excellence and I am proud to say Unlike the Labour government that I as an engineer trained in Great Britain with a proper apprenticeship some 20 years ago am saddenend by Labours "Sell off" of engineering.
I am saddened by the persecution of the low paid workers by the removal of the 10p tax.
I am disgusted by the high percentage tax on fuel.
As a small business owner and a British Engineer I feel Labour are ripping me off and letting me down.
How can the young hope to have a career that pays what is needed to climb ?...No Chance..
Come on Gordon..Give the people of Britain somthing to be proud of...
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Message posted by Barry at 2008-05-05 13:19:58
Lee, I agree with everything you have said. In addition I know for a fact that most of the Country would agree with you.

WAKE UP GORDON! The writing is on the wall unless you genuinely LISTEN to the people and ACT accordingly.
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Message posted by at 2008-05-05 07:36:36
Let us all remember the 1997 theme song 'Things can only get better'.The Labour defeat is, however, not an automatic pointer to the next general election, which must be held by June 2010. Tory voters might well turn out in greater numbers from now on, but other voters will remember what 18 years of Tory government (1979-1997) were like. Secondly, the recent results are not about the Iraq war; nor are they about the subordination of British foreign policy to the United States. They are about economic uncertainties and employment prospects. That means even moderate economic success will help Labour, which cannot go down further. The ruling party will try desperately to ensure a fourth consecutive national term by doing what three Labour governments failed to do — implement electoral reform for the House of Commons. But for now, Labour looks like lemmings headed for the cliff.

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Message posted by barry at 2008-05-05 10:01:15
I get it and I agree with you completely.

There is not a single reason Labour are faring so vey badly-it's a combination of loads of things, not least the introduction of the nanny state.
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Message posted by mike at 2008-05-04 17:49:58
The Labour strategy for the past three general elections was simple. Gordon Brown was a dour, honest Scotsman whom the working class could believe was on their side. Tony Blair was the best prime minister the Tories never had and could easily connect with Tory voters. Blair has gone, and so has the link to the Tory voters. Brown has become PM and has tried to step into Blair's shoes, thus alienating the working class. The abolition of the 10p was a catastrophe in terms of its symbolic importance. It was done - let's be honest - for no other reason than that Brown, in his last budget, could claim to be a tax cutter by reducing the main tax band from 22p to 20p. It was supposed to be a Tory-friendly move to reassure Tories that they had nothing to fear from Brown, and to restrict the Tories' ability to cut the main tax band in the future. Of course, it has proved disastrous, a truly astonishing political miscalculation that fully deserves the consequences it has reaped. Brown has lost the workers, and the Tories don't like him and can't relate to him. There's no one left in the Labour movement with any of Blair's charisma and ability to appeal to Tory voters. Labour should confront the fact that it's finished. It desperately needs to find common ground with the Liberal Democrats to form a coalition that might be able to stop Cameron's Old Etonian bandwagon. Alternatively, it needs a genuinely radical new agenda and inspirational ideas that can capture the imagination of the electorate. There's a website about "The Meritocracy Party" on the Internet, and Labour should steal some of that party's ideas if it wants to reinvent itself as a party of all the people, promoting genuine equal opportunities. I don't think Brown has it in him to change. Labour will suffer electoral meltdown unless he does. There's no evidence that he understands his predicament, and he is therefore quite incapable of doing anything about it. Get ready for a decade of being governed by anti-meritocratic Old Etonians and Bullingdon Club Oxford toffs. Anyone who votes for the Tories deserves everything they get, but Brown has handed them the reins of power. He ought to be ashamed of himself. He has become the biggest enemy of the Labour movement. Maybe the horrors of Tory rule will prove the best thing in the long run, reminding the workers of what the real game is.
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Message posted by Scott James at 2008-05-04 16:08:18
Michael John, while it is absolutely crucial for Labour to win back the disillusioned Labour grassroots voters and members, and that is it vital for our Party not to lose it's core supporters - the ordinary working class people of this country, it is still important for us to still keep the support of the high earners and middle class, too. But yes your right, it is very clear many people have come to believe that the "Labour" Party no longer is the Labour Party, that it is only Labour by name only - because there are policies put into force, most recently the 10p tax rate abolition, which brings them to believe that Labour Party no longer gives a monkey's uncle about the very people who founded it - if grassroots support cannot be retained, then we're in very deep trouble (as they will vote for other parties, namely the BNP and the Tories even !) and I really dread the concequences of having to live life under the Conservatives - the thought frightens me. As a young working class lad on a low income, I dread to think what would happen to me under the selfish, unfair Tories who stand for nothing but inequality (no matter what they say to gain votes). Labour is still the best option for the hard working people of this country, we, as a Party, just have to REALLY BUCK OUR IDEAS UP, admitt our mistakes (I admire Gordon for finally admitting that the 10p situation was a mistake and unfair thing to do to people, people who would have formerly been loyal to Labour) or else yes, we will end up losing the next election and even worse - our Party could go into historical decline and we'd be in our final years (like what happened with the Liberals). It's time for Gordon Brown, who I believe, can show himself to be a good Prime Minister, to make everybody see that Labour is the party of the people, of ALL the people - BUT, in particular, the ordinary working people...remember, we are the "LABOUR" Party ...labour means work, not aristocracy. We as a Party have done so much good for country the past 11 years...so many good things that have changed the country for the better...lets continue to do so, or we will fail.
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Message posted by Seve at 2008-05-04 11:58:38
Gordon Brown have admitted the abolishion of the 10p Tax rate was a mistake. Full credit to him for admitting it.

In my opinion he just has to admit he should of allowed us a vote on the E.U Constitution/Treaty then the electorate can start trusting Labour again.
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Message posted by David at 2008-05-04 10:33:47
I have been reading the comments posted here over the weekend and quite frankly am deeply shocked by the shallowness of some of the remarks.Its about time people realised that economically a shift of power is taking place from the West to the East.For the past ten years the majority of people in this country have been living beyond their means using credit to fuel their standard of living.Sure the banks have made it easy to borrow but no one forced people to borrow above their means.Low interest rates have encouraged this - not Gordon Brown.Fuel and food prices have risen because of a shortage of supply.Have you not noticed the rise in the standard of living in places like China and India.These are now the economic power houses of the world.We in the West have generally had it far too good for far too long and I am afraid we are going to have to get used to the new world.The era of cheap food and fuel prices is over.People in this country want it all ways -better pay for everyone,better schools and hospitals and lower taxes.You cannot have it all.Having watched The Andrew Marr show this morning its also clear that Mr Cameron amd Co have no answers to these global questions.It's about time someone really tackled him and his party on these questions instaed of letting them off the hook.I dont think that creating 600 more debt councillor posts within twelve months of coming to power is going to help anyone!
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Message posted by Brigitte at 2008-05-04 11:53:18
A worthy comment, David. Thanks. And you are spot on, up to a point. The 'live now pay later era' is over, indeed, for many people who are complacent, self-satisfied and think the world (and the Labour Government) owes them a living. But as an activist I know that the grievances of many more centred not on money but on the sharp and continued shift to the right, including Iraq and the Bush love-in. I suspect they had hoped that GB would deliver us from Blairism. I think these people gave Labour a good kicking for being 'tory-lite', whereas the me-me brigade in earnest thought the Tories would halt the new tide. Taking your point a step further, a major task of Brown's would be how to deal with the notion that you cannot have everything you want, that 'choice' always was a marketing ploy - as well as halt the drift right, to that Tory eyewash according to which you keep enriching the rich so that some of it will 'trickle down'. He should concentrate on that and not forbid people to have driving lessons with their mum or dad.
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Message posted by David at 2008-05-04 10:36:48
Sorry should read instead and not instaed.Should have used the spell checker.
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Message posted by Brigitte at 2008-05-04 12:01:10
Ian and Rachel - as an ex-smoker I can appreciate the 'disgust' you experience. It is disgusting to stand outside in all weathers to puff away on a little white stick you are spending your hard-earned cash on. It's probably even more disgusting to think your money lines the pockets of people who are laughing all the way to the bank and are healthier for not ingesting vile chemical cocktails twentyh times a day or more. I worked hard at stopping my habit because that thought was too disgusting to tolerate and thanked the Government for grasping that nettle. The help you would get through the NHS is excellent, believe me. Good luck !!
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Message posted by Stephen William at 2008-05-04 07:17:07
one should at least give some consideration on what will be open to us if a referendum is allowed. i tend to think that the E U lokks after us more than you think for example
when all the beaches and effluent discharge were cleaned up in the blackpool area so that the public could enter the water the thanks are not to the local council or our caring government. it was the E u who insisted that our beaches chould reach a certain standard.it looks to me that the best care we can hope for will come frome the E U the poiticians in london are too busy feathering their own nest!
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Message posted by Sohail at 2008-05-03 23:00:09
Labour needs new Initiatives that signifies a new direction for the party Gordon.
You know for the first time in my life I canvassed on behalf of the Ken Livingstone team. He ascertained more votes than any of his previous campaigns.
Above all and first and foremost I am a progressive centre left in my political outlook.
We have had 29 years of a continued privatisation model in our economy. I think it is the dawn of a new economic perspective. Privatisation is in its third generation and is completely saturated in terms of economic modelling.
To this effect there should be a nationalisation program of utility and energy sector corporations for the betterment of the Nation state as a whole.
You see Gordon, we live in a modern era where resources as well as food and commodities are becoming finite and rare. It is becoming a trend that in other nation states their respective Governments have correctly bought these key industries for the betterment of their nation state and invested the revenues to develop the social and economic fabric of their nation states. I think we need a similar economic outlook here in the United Kingdom.
A continuation of the current fiscal and economic model would lead to greater poverty and social deprivation and widening social as well as economic disparities within our society.
This inequality gives rise to the emergence of the centre right political parties and also the neo conservatives as the London election have shown. They foster a false perspective and start blaming all nonsense of economic theories if they have any and blame it on Europe, to immigration through to Socialism does not work. When in effect they know on an abstract economic context it is that privatisation has gone past saturation point. That is an incontrovertible fact .
Secondly in economic downturns, these cycles happen every so often and it does indeed take time for the market to recover to an orderly fashion. The financial sector needed to modernise their respective business models , that process has already commenced.
What is disappointing is that 120 billion thrown to the Investment Banking sector could have been spent better elsewhere. The modernisation of the markets or financial sector is thus an intellectual process. No amount of fiscal leveraging from Government will ever control market forces, that is the nature of capitalism and that is how it has been on an historical emphasis as well.
I still believe to this day 120 billion could have been spent to buy out the entire North Sea Energy portfolio and bring that under a nationalised program. The revenues could have been used to stimulate economic and social development throughout the United Kingdom.
We move on to foreign policy. Equally here we want to foster multilateralism yet at the same time Downing Street has been nothing other than complete subservients to a Neo Conservative Administration. Harold Wilson never did quagmires and I think that same ethos applies today.
Yes it is time for an honest reflection and have a situation analysis within Labour's hierarchy because it the the future of the Labour Party as well as its vision and ideas as well as values that is at stake. People like Tony Benn as well as Gus McDonald and many within Labour and Lord Mallot Brown have had serious reservations about the outlook for the Party if the current course of direction is not revised within Labours manifesto.
I think the 10p rate should be re introduced. That has affected the core labour voters immensely. It means they take home less pay and have to work extra hours to make the difference.
Do we want a Conservative Government? No I do not think so, they would introduce the 4th generation of the privatisation model which on an abstract economic model is when a Government knows fully well that its own economy is saturated in terms of the fiscal and monetary emphasis and seeks to create the economic growth through the privatisation of other nation states as Alan Greenspan has in so many words tacitly stated.
I would say this type of Neo Conservatism economic and resource modelling is a very daunting prospect as Tony Benn recently stated in his rally in March this year. Is this the sort of economic multilateralism we are seeing spread within the Neo Conservative lobby? I do not believe that the voters of the centre left or even working class are intellectually naive or stupid.
However I do believe that there is utter opportunism of the highest magnitude from the Conservatives.
A new direction is required otherwise we shall have a large Conservative majority with very little even the remaining Labour MP's can do to stop the Neo Cons taking us to further wars and occupation in the name of privatisation of nation states cloaked under the auspice of interventionism- Thus what Tony Benn stated has so much resonance and this is equally endorsed with what Greenspan has stated.
As for City Hall, that is now run by maverick neo fascists, that is the state of democracy today. The European Union as an economic block ? well the Neo Cons would probably dismantle that as well. If it is such then what you would see is a move from multilateralism to unilateralism on a social and economic perspective. That in itself would lead to back door segregation on a social and economic perspective, is that the sort of Europe that we want? No, I do not believe it is.
To this effect alone but most of all the future of the Real Labour Party then its founding principles must be honoured and upheld and if need be to modernise the Labour Party Constitution.
The world has evolved and in Politics you make your own luck. Labour has to be bold and generate the vision to take the nation state forward with confidence. It has to represent all within the nation state, not just the corporate interests.
Without this as a Political entity in opposition for a decade or more is not an enlightening prospect.
Today within the Party are people with intellect and talent and the attributes to win the 4th term in office. Do not squander the vested opportunity and time that you have in office to throw the historic 4th term down the drain. Two years is a very long time in Politics and with steadfast leadership I do believe that Labour can win.
I shall not be taking part in City Hall as my political party lost, even though Ken received the highest share of the vote than his prior two elections.
I suppose in Politics you really do make your own luck and to that effect I wish you every success to modernising the Party and preparing for the 4th term.
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Message posted by Michael John at 2008-05-03 23:36:51
After reading through many of the comments. It's very clear that real hard working labour people are disillusioned with the government's lack of ability/interest to help the most neglected in our society.
Working people are the real Labour party.
Enough of this New labour nonsense. It is over. Big business doesn't need government's help to make a fortune off the back of the poor downtrodden working class
Let's start helping the working people, pensioners and disabled.
The Labour party through it's many years of history has had to overcome many struggles. The new battle is with the revitalised Tories and rebuilding confidence in OUR Labour Party!!
Remember.."Best when we're boldest, Best when we're Labour".
Gordon you and the team have a lot of work to do. Sound bites won't be enough.
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Message posted by Bill at 2008-05-04 08:14:48
Well the traditional working class thinks in what we would have thought was a middle class way in the past. So they aspire, but many of our policies for social justice don't appear to benefit them.

I think we shoot ourselves in the foot:

No rebuttal of Tory lies as pre 1997 immediately they speak

Pushing for 50% of children to go to university, but leaving them with massive debts yet low income possibilities - teachers, nurses etc.

Highlighting failure through the inspection regime, especially the new school inspection regime, not emphasisng success over the last decade.

Not appearing serious - see behaviour of Milliband at last PMQs when Clegg asked an easy question.

Letting Cameron get away with personal attacks on the PM. Throw mud back.
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Message posted by Scott James at 2008-05-03 21:56:46
I have to agree with a few people on here that, due to policies such as for instance, the abolition of the 10p tax rate - it seems as though the Labour Party is no longer the "Labour" Party. Our Party was born because low-paid working class people from the poor section of our society decided to stand up for themselves and demand parliamentary representation. I do NOT agree that the Labour Party has, overall, changed for the worse - I think under Tony we achieved a lot of positive things for Britain (as explained in my previous post comment). But there are policies now being introduced and things which will make grassroots Labour voters and members (the working class on low/lowish incomes) abandon the Party - which would be absolutely devastating. Many working class people feel that the Party that once stood up for them and spoke out for them is now turning against them. Gordon Brown, if you will listen to the people of this country now, then you must begin with those ordinary members in your own Party and those who vote for the Party...or you will lose their vital support. I believe that Brown can be a good, strong leader, but he has to start showing it NOW. I come from a working class family who have always voted for Labour - my grandparents, my father, my mother...all grassroots voters of the Party, now none of them vote for the Party and have turned their backs on Labour, as they feel that the Party has turned their backs on them and embraced the middle class, the upper class and the millionaries of this country and completely abandoned the hard-working industrial workers of society, the very people who built this Party. Gordon, I don't believe this is the case, but sadly many grassroots members and voters DO. Please, we must show we are the Party of the people - start listening to them and do learn from this - I believe we can still win the next election if you start to win back the people who would like to look up to you.
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Message posted by Liesa at 2008-05-03 20:45:26
I was a 3rd generation labour voter. My Granddad was a labour councilor and next to be Lord Mayor before his death. My parents were active labour activists.

Why did I not vote for your party? As a lowish earner, married, no children (and no IVF due to my age) what can the party that used to be for the working class do for me? None of your myriad of tax credits apply, hence my wage is gobbled up by mortgage, petrol, council tax, food, utility bills and the ever spiraling cost of simply living in Ungreat Britain. On top of that we have your wonderful, decisive smoking ban. Great to let one of the countries highest revenue payers suddenly become society's outcasts. Have you been to a Labour WMC in the north recently? The pensioners that fought for freedom? Heard what they have to say about the party that they held dear? Whilst stood under your parties idea of a humane smoking solution... a 50% enclosed 'shelter'that the RSPCA would not house a sick dog in?

Listen and learn Mr. Brown. Boris has and will question the way you are treating the citizens of this country.

Your voters have spoken. It would be in the Labour Party's interest to listen.
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Message posted by Neil at 2008-05-03 19:56:11
Its not a protest Vote ..... The labour part gave this country such great hope all those years ago .... what a great let down you have been.
Working in local goverment I know the party 20 years ago would standby hundreds of good working people.
Mr Brown attacks public sector workers ... I have friends losing £5000 + a year in the name of equality " Single Status ".... the goverment has given no extra funding to local councils to carry out this unfair law .

For god sake remove MR Brown " how can you let this country slip in to Tory hands........
This was more than a protest ..... will the last one to leave the building please switch off the light..... good night Mr Brown
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Message posted by Terry at 2008-05-03 22:09:23
Let us get things in perspective.
1. My wife and I are pensioners.
2.
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Message posted by sudeep at 2008-05-03 19:00:57
I am not member of the labour party bout all my life i voted fot labour party but i hope labour will change tonight and implement more radical policy for the working class yes going back to old politices which we do live in a class society other wise the B.N.P will increase they vote and seats, and for the first time they kept hold of 100 seats and won a seat in the London assembly small but growing as if we do not keep them in check i can see the same situation as france le pen. Yes labour has done more for people but it not enough Gordon Brown has made the rich more wealth then before and us the workers are working long hours and less pay i voted for labour to challenge the bosses not to love them. And lbour party should not be attacking immigration or playing to be more patriotic were are creating enviroment were the far right like to play and yes let repeal anti union law this stablity has not benefited us for one thing not while my pay is low and my bills are high
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Message posted by CJ at 2008-05-03 14:53:49
I am not affiliated to any political party but have voted for both the Conservatives and Labour in previous general elections over the last 20 years.

As someone who is classed as middle class and lives in the Labour marginal seat of Stevenage. This is a seat that Labour have to hold on to if they are to form the next government after the next general election (it is no.
71 on the Conservatives' target list).

It is all very well the Prime Minister saying that he will listen and learn but Labour should have been doing this over the last 11 years. Why did we not get a referendum on the amended EU treaty? Why is the government still raising taxes with the real prospect of recession on the horizon?

The local election results which gave Labour a hammering were self-inflicted by the Labour Party and have very little to do with a resurgent Conservative Party.

Gordon - it is getting very late in the day to start being in touch with public opinions and millions of people like myself are losing patience with your adninistration. Like in 1997, we will decide to give an untested and untried opposition party to give this country a new leadership and direction.
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Message posted by Steve at 2008-05-03 12:34:31
"We are best when we are Labour"
Didn't someone quite well known say this?
I used to be a party member but I cannot afford it now. My former employer unfairly dismissed me then did a phoenix with his company owing me over £140,000.
I wrote to Tony about it when he had the top job, but heard nothing.
I have had to sell my home becuase of this and I am on the point of personal bankruptcy.
With all that I have gone through in the last 5 years, I would still vote Labour.
The Tory alternative does not bear thinking about, and even more concerning is the working class votes being picked up by the nasty BNP.
One plea Gordon, give the grass roots our Party back, When we are Labour, we are best!

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Message posted by Mark at 2008-05-03 11:35:22
What he really means is that he will appear to listen.
What he doesn't say is that having appeared to listen, he will continue doing what he and Blair did all along, ie. whatever he pleases. He knows he's out at the next election, anyway, so why pay attention to anyone now?
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Message posted by Jay at 2008-05-03 10:43:47
For me one word sums up New Labour, 'authoritarianism' and our society is now littered with examples of a government that is determined to impose its will with punitive enforcement. A prime example is the comprehensive smoking ban which was in breach of the Labour Party's manifesto pledge. Politicians listened to the spin of a pernicious lobby and the Government, in implementing draconian legislation, has spearheaded a campaign of demonisation of 25% of the population whilst being happy to accept the substantial financial contribution that those very people make to the Treasury. The hospitality industry has been seriously affected yet the Government continues to deny that the ban is other than a resounding success. The ban has created division, anger and isolation for many of the most vulnerable in our society. Whilst not of such major importance as the 'big issues', nevertheless, all other things being equal, lt might just play a part in the downfall of New Labour. My voting behaviour at the general election will certainly be influenced by this issue.
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Message posted by David at 2008-05-03 10:22:07
TO ME AS A LIFE LONG LABOUR PARTY MEMBER NEW LABOUR SEEMS TO COME ACROSS TO ME AS HARD AND UNCARING TRYING TO OUT DO THE TORIES WITH HEAD LINES LIKE THE ATTACKS ON THE DISABLED.
AS A DISABLED PERSON WHO CANNOT WORK I HAVE A SMALL OCCUPATIONAL ILL HEALTH PENSION AND I GET INCAPACITY BENEFIT AND DLA I PAY TAXES AS WELL AND WITH COSTS OF PETROL GOING UP AND HEATING IT IS VERY HARD.
NOW I DONT KNOW IF ANYONE KNOWS THIS BUT THE CUTS IN INCAPACITY BENEFITS WILL HIT WORKING PEOPLE AS WE ALL PAY A NATIONAL INSURANCE INCASE WE CANNOT WORK AGAIN SO THESE CUTS WHEN EMOPLOYMENT AND SUPPORT ALLOWENCE COMES IN WILL MAKE MORE POVERTY AND THE WHOLE WELFARE REFORM WAS COPIED FROM THE USA. I AS A DISABLED PERSON DO NOT LIKE THE WAY THE GOV HAS PORTRAYED DISABLED AS WORK SHY SCROUNGERS I TAKE AFFENCE TO THAT.
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Message posted by Adam at 2008-05-03 09:51:53
It's amazing that they now suddenly want to "Listen". The general populace has been lied to over the years. An economic boom, created by Gordon, has resulted in an economic nightmare and now that people are suffering they do nothing to reduce fuel duty or vat on fuel, remove the 10p tax band and make people worse off.

So they get hammered in the local elections and NOW THEY WANT TO LISTEN. Well listen up Gordon. Reduce fuel duty OR rejig the way VAT on fuel is calculated. Lower tax to 18p in the pound everyone will benefit from that. Oh and stop borrowing. Live within your means. Then perhaps people will start to take you and your charlatan party seriously.
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Message posted by Richard at 2008-05-03 08:56:20
Sorry about the typos in my previous message I was typing too fast.it should be recinding, not recing and people not paople.
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Message posted by Richard at 2008-05-03 08:53:20
Bring back the 10p tax band find funds to give students a grant again (at the same time recing student fees) raise the 40p band to pay for it. Renationalise were possible (at original share price). Get rid of Car tax alterations (poorer people have older cars)
And finally, Gordon don't smile be your natural self paople trust you when you look miserable!!!!!
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Message posted by at 2008-05-03 08:42:16
I grew up under Thatcher and the Conservatives, promptly joined the Labour party as a teenager and prayed for the day Labour returned to power.I am no longer a member and worse still I didn't vote labour for the first time in my life in the London Mayoral and assembly elections. Neither did any of my immediate and extended family, all previously Labour supporters and we are set on doing the same for future Local and General Elections. Why? Mass immigration affecting us directly,placing policing, NHS and school services under immense strain as well as completely changing the demographic of a town I have lived in all my life; no doctors appointments (on this occasion for my asthmatic daughter this week despite being very ill); no practice nurses appointments (ever) for asthma checks, smear tests etc;my aunt not being given the drugs she needs to fight cancer because she lives in the wrong area; the economy, rising costs, mortgages etc; the disgraceful way you have treated our police services in England with regard to the lies over their pay rise. All politicians should go out and patrol with our over stressed serving police officers, most doing a minimum of 12+ hour shifts (24/7 with no shift allowances) and see the state of the society we now live in; the 10p tax that hit my already low earnings;the folding of my husbands pension from a previous employment, losing thousands of pounds when we struggled to pay it bringing up a young family because we were told it was the sensible thing to do; the loss of our own culture and heritage; our country being bombed by home grown extremists, which we partially blame on your policies ; the painful loss of our national identity and pride because it is not celebrated and respected in our multi-cultural society.
I feel completely let down and disillusioned and can see why so many of our friends are either leaving the London area or emmigrating.
You, and the other main parties really do need to listen. I fear for our country's future in years to come.
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Message posted by Stephen William at 2008-05-03 07:27:18
when the party/government were very keen on completing the building of the london dome at the cost of nearly one thousand million pounds we in the blackpool area were raising funds to acquire a scanner for the main hospital with no help from the government after a number of years and many fundraising events we finaly achieved the purshase of this scanner but it still needs further ecquipment to allow children to use it and at present we have to book the children into other town hospitals and they fit them in when they can
now that london has the olympics and the goverment will joyfully contribute to the nine thousnd million that london needs we in blackpool will still be fundraising to aqcuire the one hundred thousand pounds required for the said childrens equipment
9 years later . what can we thank you and the party for? within that time you even agreed for lord falkener to have his office re wallpapered at the cost of £500 per roll . once again many thanks
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Message posted by Brigitte at 2008-05-03 06:38:37
I second Scott's comments and add some: taking the Thatcher/Major coupling as an example, many Labour supporters hoped for a revival of some of the old values of the Labour Party from you:values that could have underpinned moe equitable solutions to problems than the 10p tax or mass rural post office closures. And like Major, you kept the same old leaky boat afloat. If Labour is the champion of communities, why allow the resources that supports and sustains local communities to die?Why not look to support post offices and increase their role rather than increase the difficulties that the elderly, the disabled people and people on low income face? And all the quangocracy remains in place with unaccountable sycophants drawing salaries than make our eyes water. It is a shame it had to come to this rout after the improvements Labour has wrought. If you are listening, Gordon, dump the luvvies. Supporters want Labour to be an alternative to consumerism and US style free-market ideology.
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Message posted by Scott James at 2008-05-03 05:45:25
It's a great shame we had such a bad night. Our Party has done a tremendous job in governing the country at both a local and nation-wide scale. We are the only true Party of equality for all regardless of gender, social class, race, religion, sexual orientation and where people live...our Party and it's elected local councillors and MPs represent everybody, and I have to say do a damn good job of it. Overall, our Party had done very positive work the last 11 years, for example more people are now in employment than ever before for a long time, we have a national minimum wage, we have less people on welfare, more and more people staying on at school post-compulsory education and more people attending university, more apprenticeships, a healthier Britain due to the smoking ban, for instance, the scrapping of Section 28 and full equality for homosexuals and a strong stance against international terrorism - these are just a few of the things that show that our Party is the best at changing Britain and making peoples' lives in the modern 21st century Britain comfortable and fair. However policies such as the 10p tax rate being abolished and dithering over economic crises like Northern Rock for example, will only plumet the Labour Party downhill - the 10p tax rate policy has been an absolute disaster and many in my town will be hard-hit by it. I will always be a socialist and a Labour boy through and through, but policies such as this must stop now, Gordon, or we face losing the next election to David Cameron and the nasty Conservative Party, who will return this country to a completely unfair and unequal society and will ruin it. Indeed Gordon, not only you, but all of us in the Party at all levels, whether MPs, councillors or ordinary members, must take heed at the election results and move forward and actually start listening to what people are actually saying, and not ignore them. Lets show we are the Party that listens to the people. Words are not enough, we MUST act.
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Message posted by treborc at 2008-05-03 08:03:23
Economically inactive, or in Thatchers years unemployed 10 million.

just changing the way something is counted does not mean facts, if you take those ten million remove 2 million disabled it leaves 8 million people out of work, but seeking employment.
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Message posted by John at 2008-05-02 23:59:03
Gordon....just stop interfering in peoples lives!
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Message posted by Stephen  at 2008-05-02 23:33:15
Oh and one last thing...
Why can't we English have free prescriptions and all the benefits that are brought in by the Welsh assembley and the Scottish Parliment.
Don't get me wrong, I don't object to the Welsh and Scots voting in these benefits..what I do object to is that none of these benefits come in in England..we are always last!
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Message posted by Stephen at 2008-05-02 23:25:25
I once was a member of the Labour party.
I voted for Labour for the last three general elections. I cried when Labour came to power, but I have no plans to ever vote labour again...Why?
Labour seeks to tax every thing and everyone. The really good thing that Labour has done for my family, tax credits, is swallowed up by other taxes.
Next Labour seeks to control everyone's moral and is running a nanny state. Third, Council tax..it just keeps going up and up...where will it stop!
Furthermore University charges, increases in car tax.
The thing that really struck me what when one of your ministers today said that we need to improve your 'presentation' skills! No you don't, you need to change your policies.
Under Labour post offices closed.
Under Labour excessive immigration from Eu countries that were not really to join the European community, threatens the cohesion of our community.
It would take a lot of change for me to vote Labour.
My wife and Myself along with my nineteen year old son all voted Conservative in the marginal of Chester.
I never thought I would vote Conservative..you really need to get back in touch with your roots.
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Message posted by at 2008-05-02 23:15:10
As a long term labour voter, I protested last year at the Scottish elections by not voting for labour - mainly because of the smoking ban. Would it be worth trying to find out how many others did the same? Obviously this is not exclusively a labour matter. The current executive also supports the smoking ban. But they might not have been the current executive, but for the smoking ban.
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Message posted by colin at 2008-05-02 22:51:03
I agree with a number of other posters that the draconian smoking ban has turned many voters away from Labour. Smokers are being treated as second class citizens and I will not vote for a party that ignored a 65% vote for separate areas.
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Message posted by David at 2008-05-02 22:03:12
Ryan: I go to the pub/working man's club 3-4 times a week. I am every other day reminded of the smoking ban. I pay my mortgage one a month. The economy is not something that the Labour Party can control 100%, the smoking ban they can. My quality of life has been severely compromised. Health, again the LP has acted in good faith, immigration and my objection to it is not something the LP wants me to be polemic on. The smoking ban can be changed overnight without reference to Europe, and bankers. Hundreds of pubs have closed because of it, causing much unemployment, just because we have nannying/bullying health fascists.
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Message posted by David at 2008-05-02 22:03:09
I dont know where to start here,i heard on the radio today some labour politician saying high fuel prices etc etc to blame for slump, lets examine this, a litre of unleaded would cost around 33 pence if there was no tax on it !! why wont the labour party promise to keep it at 99 per litre no matter the cost of a barrel, its easily done but the thought of losing some extra cash means that will never happen im sorry to say, and what do we hear of next new bands for road tax, this would be fine for new cars ,but why back date it from march 2001 ? ? these cars have already been made and are being driven on the roads, taxing them more wont make them vanish, someone will drive them no matter, if it was only on new cars the car manufacturers wont make high polluting cars if they have no orders for them, but to back date this tax is nothing but a money making stealth tax on the motorist the easy target, my own car a Cougar v6 will cost £430 by 2010 !! for a 9 year old car, this is disgusting, if its really about the enviroment, why not put the dearer tax on old cars that have no catalytic convertors, these cars are the most polluting but will pay no extra, wheres the sense in that ? untill things like i have pointed out in this are sorted i wont vote this party ever again
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Message posted by mike at 2008-05-02 21:56:37
I am a lifelong Labour supporter from South Wales, head in hands at the mess Labour has got itself into. How can a party that's supposed to be interested in social justice, on the side of working people, have ever thought that abolishing the 10p tax rate was a good idea? Why did nobody in the PLP or elsewhere get a handle on this sooner? So much for leadership. What idiot was responsible for this daft policy idea?

The government's hair shirt approach on climate change, the economy etc. is a political albatross... presentation never goes beyond the usual, "We've got to make tough choices," Haven't we all... people have the perception that prices are rocketing, some people can't afford to run their cars and for many there is no viable public transport alternative. People feel like they are suffering and it looks like the government either doesn't care or is taking some kind of perverse pleasure in all this... almost feels like we're back to the Tory mantra of "if it isn't hurting, it isn't working."

Am also sick to death of middle class Labour ministers and MPs talking down to working class people, disabled people, single parents about welfare to work etc... how many of them have ever had to do a crap job for the minimum wage? Guess what... that kind of life is not very attractive, even with tax credits. For most of us who didn't move seamlessly from posh private school to university to career in law/accountancy etc., ministers look and sound completely out of touch with the day to day lives of working people in this country. I'm sick of hearing this rubbish about listening... it's about time the party was much more representative of working people. Otherwise, the drubbing in South Wales (taken for granted for far too long by Labour) will be repeated across GB.
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Message posted by Jan at 2008-05-02 21:46:38
Are you ready to listen to the 14 million smokers now Mr Brown. The ones that you lied to when you promised exemption to private clubs & non food serving pubs? Show you can listen to what the people want & restore choice to the hospitality industry & stop destroying lives & jobs. It is not right that the 85 year old ex- serviceman who fought for YOUR freedom is now standing shivering outside his British Legion to have a cigarette I always voted Labour but never again after this draconian smoking ban.
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Message posted by sheila at 2008-05-03 11:54:26
I suffer with Asthma quite badly and haven't been able to socialise in pubs for years. Since the ban I have such a better quality of life and can go out now without risk to my health. Whilst I sympathise with smokers (I used to smoke myself, that's why I'm asthmatic), no one is saying you cannot smoke. Just consider people with ill health for a moment.
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Message posted by Helen at 2008-05-04 21:56:49
Sheila. There are suitable alternatives to a draconian blanket ban that would cater for all needs and choices, so that the smokers that you sympathise with and those who need to keep away from smokey atmpospheres like bonfires, barbecues, cigarette smoke, etc are all catered for. A total ban is not the answer. Fair solutions must be found
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Message posted by Mary at 2008-05-02 21:44:46
The quality of life and freedoms of people have been severly eroded during the last few years of this labour government. When socialising with others now, the main topic of conversation now seems to be 'calling the nanny state'. Most devasting of all and never far from anybody's thoughts is the draconian 'blanket' smoking ban. I don't think I can go a day without somebody mentioning this to me. It's really strange. It seems to me that our great leaders in Westminster appear to be so out of touch with the people, listening only to the people that sing their same tune
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Message posted by Jean Albert at 2008-05-02 21:39:48
I am really sad when I listen people saying that the labour party has been so long in power , so the country need a Change. Change about what? For the ten past years, the Labour party has transformed this country from a dead country to a modern one. it has tackled so many issues such as Immigration, Economy, democratie, and others. Country like France want to copy the labour party policies as they have been successful, and you are turning your back to a party that has planned great future for you? I hope that you have made a right choice. Just wait and see. No comments.
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Message posted by Daryl at 2008-05-02 22:45:20
I live in France for a substantial part of the year and if as you state, France were to even think of copying Labour's policies, the French would be very quick to show their disapproval by way of strikes which would bring the country to a standstill!
It's a shame the British don't adopt the same actions instead of just moaning about the actions of the man who professes to be a leader but promises to "Listen & Lead". It's a bit late for that, remember Gordon Brown was not elected by the people, you earn respect - not have it as a badge of office, and he is in office to represent the people - not something I am sure he understands.
Perhaps he should start "listening" by heeding some of the comments on this forum.
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Message posted by Ryan at 2008-05-02 21:19:09
I can't believe so many people commenting seem to be wanting Labour to fail because of something of such national importance as... a smoking ban in public places. Does health, transport, immigration etc policy mean anything to you? Or are you so self centred and small minded that all you care about is being able to smoke where you want! It really worries when people define who they want to run a country for such selfish reasons.
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Message posted by Pat  at 2008-07-08 16:28:13
Hi Ryan,

The smoking issue may seem a trivial one but it is at the very heart of freedom. If we cannot live our lives without Govt interference, we might as well all live in Russia or Zimbabwe.

The point about the ban is that it was introduced on selective "evidence" while ignoring comprehensive studies that found that there is no danger to anyone from SHS.

People also don't like being lied to. NuLab promised in its 2005 manifesto that it would only introduce a partial ban. It lied. That's why peolple are angry.

Besides all of that, what is wrong with choice? It should never be a radical idea in a free democracy.

I suspect that you don't like smoking. Surely you would also be happier to have smokers tucked away in segrated, ventilated areas where they don't mix outside with non-smokers or smoke haters, and they are not standing outside pubs for all the "impressionable young" to see.
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Message posted by Judith at 2008-05-02 21:37:49
What Ryan - you can't beleive that smokers object to having their civil liberties taken away. The very reason we are fighting in Iraq and Afganistan! Everything starts from here - without smokers taxes there would be no NHS. Selfish isn't the word I would use to the old and infirm, some with drips attached standing in the pouring rain having a smoke. The very people that funded the hospitals they are being treated in and the very people this government has promised to look after. Everyone has a right to their say, or is it only the non-smokers in your world with any rights?
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Message posted by paul at 2008-05-02 21:11:10
"Listen and Lead"
A referendum on the EU treaty.
A return of the 10% tax band.
A reduction in fuel duty.
A parliament for England, an end to Scottish members of the house voting on devolved issues that affect only England like Health and Education.
The abolition of NICE.
An end to stealth taxes.
A new leader, if Brown is not replaced Labour will lose the next election.
An end to using English taxes to try unsuccesfully to buy votes in Scotland and Wales, hence the bigger expenditure in Wales and Scotland.
An end to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Message posted by John at 2008-05-02 20:30:48
Stop acting the nanny in people's lives, and listen to advice before you jump in.

Although not elected yourself Mr Brown, the government was elected promising a smoking ban that wouldn't apply to pubs and clubs - despite warnings of the damage it would do. Next week you intend to force through an Act controlling what people may get up to in the privacy of their own bedroom with a camera, criminalising a lot of people without them being aware of it - despite warnings from the lawyers and the House of Lords about it's unworkability and intrusiveness. You're thinking of ignoring the advice of one your own committees on cannabis use.....the list goes on!

Just stop meddling with people's lives, and give them back their freedom of choice!
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Message posted by Stephen William at 2008-05-02 20:16:48
when the labour party announced that it was far too big and important to come to blackpool from now on.and would have to go to venues that could accomodate and pander to its higher status. maybe now is the time to contact blackpool to see if the town will have the party back for its conferences as other towns will be looking to attract a more popular party
rember always be nice to people on the way up because you may meet them on the way down !
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Message posted by David at 2008-05-02 20:06:18
Everything you have said is true and more.Which ones are outside labour control?
Are you listening Mr Brown?
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Message posted by David at 2008-05-02 19:44:49
War in Iraq
Mass immigration.
Massive increases in food prices.
Soaring crime statistics.
Diabolical transport system.
Robbing the poor to pay the rich.
Congestion charges.
Soaring prices at the petrol pumps.
Domestic fuel charges.
Neglecting those who are really in need.
Total subserviance to the faceless bureaucrats in Brussels.
Why Labour lost!
Are you listening Mr Brown?
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Message posted by david at 2008-05-02 19:44:31
Oh well, 'things can only get better'
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Message posted by Gary at 2008-05-02 19:37:59
Do us one favour if your going to resign. Institute some legislation that will eventually give the people of England their own Parliament. Those who don't want one will eventually come around. An agreed binding defence policy and free exchange of ideas on other matters is not such a bad idea.
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Message posted by Gary at 2008-05-02 19:40:37
If you do create an English Parliament please make sure it's not Londoncentric. The rest of the country is far as I know could do with some of the investment.
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Message posted by Stephen William at 2008-05-02 20:20:36
i fully agree when will the labour party come outside the capital city and see for themselves the lack of investment in the rest of the country
before its too late and they are out of office for the next 20 years
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Message posted by Stephen at 2008-05-02 20:04:56
An English parliament where the South East rules the rest of England in its own interest and diverts even more resources from the North? Please nooooo
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Message posted by Gary  at 2008-05-02 20:46:59
That's the real threat Stephen. London democracy for England
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Message posted by Stephen William at 2008-05-02 20:26:26
an interesting thought would be that after the government spent 1billion
wasted on the dome would they have allowed the capital to construct the super casino if it had proposed by the review commitee i think the government would have give it its full backing
but suggest its not for the north west
would not be suitable as they dont need the employment
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Message posted by Gary at 2008-05-02 20:44:29
I agree Stephen when 'London's Calling' it usually results in the rest of the country being short changed. Apparently Londoners believe they subsidise the Enlish Midlands, the North, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland. Would love to see the real figures on that, if it was ever possible, wouldn't you?
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Message posted by Stephen William at 2008-05-03 07:13:05
if they truly believe this then they and only they should man the armed forces as they are the only ones privileged why should the rest of the country who are not in favour send their sons and daughters to conflict
while those in the city control what the north receive. you are very unlikely to see any of the cabinet ministers children on the front line
being paid private's wages
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Message posted by Helen at 2008-05-02 19:35:31
I am from the North-West of England and live in a true labour heartland. I visit the labour clubs weekly as this is how I spend my social life. I'm afraid that there is a lot of talk about labour's mistakes within these social circles, and the main reason stated by these previous labour voters was the smoking ban. Smokers are people and should be treated as such. Smokers, and the majority of non-smokers, agree that a more sensible solution could have been reached, agreeable to all. People are aware of the more sensible smoking policies that have been made available within the EU. People do not like this blanket ban and refuse to be treated like this. Amongst the visitors to the labour clubs here, this was the main reason that they stated that they wouldn't be voting this time
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Message posted by vera at 2008-05-06 13:32:46
I have until the last few years been aLabour voter and live in one of the strongest and safest Labour held constituencies in the country.
I amnot dissatisfied with my MP as such but I am appalled at how the Labour parties policies have marginalised me in my own country.It is this that has turned me (and many others) against Labour.
If youare listening and learning Mr Brown please see below what is wrong with youre policies for me.
Too much of the PC brigade influence-not allowing us to exercise our right to
free speech, without having awful tags hung on us.
Treating us like children by removing our choices in lifestyle.
I feel like an outsider in my own country -being white, English and Christian -I am at the bottom of the pile as far as tolerance is allowed, whilst I must embrace all minorities ,unquestioningly, despite them being alien to me.
Our Parliament is over-run with Scots,who have the power to shape laws that effect me,despite having their own devolved parliament that English MP's have no influence in.
I am smoker and am being treated like a leper -not allowed to smoke in the pub,on a well earned night out.
How can you so marginalise smokers when it is not a criminal act to smoke and you remain happy and thankful to receive the not inconsiderable levy on tobacco.You have completely altered the
social atmosphere of our locals(and not for the better)merely to placate a blinkered anti-smoking lobby who have cynically used to distort the evidence on passive smoking.
Thereby bullying a weak and ineffectual government into bending to their will.
Yoy have allowed mass immigration to take place,disturbing and distorting our national life.Causing overstretching of our services -NHS,schools,housing ect. my values and traditions now seemingly have to take a step back to accomdate these immigrants, who the latest report on shows have no added value to this country or it's economy.
You fail to defend the those who are willing to work for a living and prefer to subsidise those who choose to be idle .
You do littleto support the family where the mother and father are married and together but favour those who choose to have children with no thought of a stable life for them and are utterley devoid of any positive role models.
Prisoners rights appear to over-ride those of their victims and custodians.
So you can see what kind of society we feel we are living in ,how did we get to this sorry state ?Answrs and solutions please.
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Message posted by David at 2008-05-02 19:29:42
To late! You won't! You haven't!
I used to support Labour......You ignored me and no doubt thousands like me. My wife has just picked up her pay packet and guess what you've been into that. She takes home a miserly £708 per month but you want that.
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Message posted by Gary at 2008-05-02 19:28:26
Simply not good enough. Work to rectify the mistakes immediately. We can and will help but you need to give us something to fight for.No, just stating remember the Tories and Cameron is a she in wolves clothing does not work.
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Message posted by gary at 2008-05-02 19:31:07
Sorry folks getting on a bit eyesight failing. Should have read, as I'm sure you know, 'sheep in wolves clothing'.
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Message posted by Judith at 2008-05-02 19:25:36
Gordon, I have listened to you saying YOU are now going to listen but I still wonder. We are all suffering due to the high cost of food, petrol, gas, electric and through trying to pay mortgages. Add onto that the most hated and segregatory bill in Labour's history and you have failure. Remember, there are 15 million smokers out there, and that number is rising, like it or not, and they will vote - and it will not be for you unless you truly listen. Smokers pay the second highest level of tax after drivers, you need them - ignore them at your fiscal peril!
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Message posted by Delta at 2008-05-02 19:17:35
Stealth taxes by the score, surveillence state with cameras and legislation to keep us all down, 10p tax, data loss fiasco,3500 new laws (Tacitus had something to say about that), fuel duty, vat on everything, reneging on our rights to a referendum ( i still want MY vote sunshine), corruption, sleaze (hello Mr Speaker), incompetence, dithering, couldnt care less attitude, not listening, not hearing, 42 day detentions, pensions theft, Northern Rock, immigration, tough on crime???make me laugh!, council snoops, got a nice view? here have some TAX for it!, David Milliband, yvette cooper, Hazel (god i hater her) Blears, and a multitude of other things youve inflicted on us........

Getting any clues why we detest you and your party yet Mr Brown?

Do us all a big fat favour, IMPLODE!!!
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Message posted by Nathalie at 2008-05-02 19:00:18
Gordon, how do you have the nerve to stand and say 'you are going to listen and learn' ! Its too flipping late!!! I don't believe anything you say because I have lost faith and trust in you as Prime Minister and there is nothing you can do to change my mind no matter how many times you go on TV full of your promises of what you are now going to do for the people of Britain, its too late!!!! I just can't stand listening to you anymore! You and your Party have had 10 years to listen and learn and you have quite clearly demonstrated that you do not listen to the People of Britain. The best thing you can do for this country is to call an early General Election. I was a Labour supporter 10 years ago, but next time I will be voting Conservative. I realise there is no guarantee that they will actually do a better job than the Labour government, (its very easy to make promises isn't it, but a darn sight harder to keep them - as you should know!!) but I am definitely prepared to now vote for the Conservatives. You are an 'unelected' Prime Minister who quite clearly should not be in the position of leading the country. As long as you remain Prime Minister, Labour will not have a chance to recover. Do the decent thing and give the People of Britain a chance to see the light at the end of this very long dark gloomy tunnel by calling a General Election because currently there is absolutely nothing 'Great' about Great Britain!
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Message posted by Gary at 2008-05-02 20:04:34
Nathalie. Having read your post my knee jerk reaction is to decry you as an idiot. You state that the Labour Party has acheived nothing in 10 years 'you have had 10 years to listen', then go on to say you were a Labour supporter for 10 years. Can it really be true that you were a supporter for that length of time and yet you were at odds with the government during that entire period? I think more likely you are young and buy nature what is popularly known as a 'floating' voter. Regardless of the differing history/fundamental principles you will always try and back the winner. This is proven by the fact you intend to vote Conservative rather than an any of the alternatives. As to being 'unelected' this is true but not the first time its happened. You complain about it when it is your own party and not the opposition? Do you really want the government to recover as you intimate? Me thinks not. Go to William Hills and put your next wage on Cameron. Leave the fight to those with conviction and the stamina.
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Message posted by BRYAN at 2008-05-03 07:16:24
no need at all to be calling people idiot's, just cos their views differ from your's!!!
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Message posted by Nathalie at 2008-05-02 20:37:32
To clarify, I said I was a Labour Supporter 10 years ago - I didn't say I was a Labour Supporter for 10 years as you have implied. I went off Labour very quickly and I didn't vote when Labour got in second time because I had lost faith in them by then. Hope that clarifies it for you. And... I am not an Idiot either thank you very much.
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Message posted by Gary at 2008-05-02 20:50:53
I recind any implication Nathalie. Hope your time under Cameron is all that you hope it to be.
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Message posted by sheila at 2008-05-02 18:36:39
I am a pensioner with a small occupational pension in addition to my retirement pension. I have just had my first payment since the 10p tax was scrapped and I am £20 worse off. What are you going to do about this, it is appalling what you've done. On a fixed income I can't afford to lose £20. You have promised to help us low paid people but it hasn't been made clear what you are going to do and when. I didn't vote Labour this time round.
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Message posted by treborc at 2008-05-02 18:45:07
I can tell you, your already getting compensation Labour pointed out your getting extra fuel allowance this year, this will be your compensation, people who are single working will also get nothing, people who are just under retirement age but retired will get heating allowance. it's estimated only 700,000 people will in fact get compensations, this was done because Brown felt the little people at the bottom would vote Labour no matter what happens, while the 10p rate would help the rich because they only pay 20p tax in the future.

sadly you and me will get nothing at all.
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Message posted by sheila at 2008-05-03 11:47:41
I know that Labour said they would give pensioners £50 more winter fuel allowance, but that's just a one off, and it doesn't compensate for the £20 per month that I am losing. I don't know how they expect us all to live. Most pensioners are struggling anyway before the 10p tax cut.
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Message posted by Richard at 2008-05-02 18:05:05
As an agent for three candidates I feel that Our Leader aught to get rid of his closest advisors, who are obviously no good and listen to people with more common sense and less 'brains' (?).
Our troubles go back to the student fees and a whole load of Parliamentary Bills that adversly affect our natural voters, ending in the 10p Tax and backdating increases on car duty.
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Message posted by Nigel at 2008-05-02 17:32:34
Although the media (predictably) haven't mentioned it, Labour would be unwise to ignore the effect of the smoking ban on its traditional vote.

People don't like being coerced, and they don't like their pubs and clubs closing.

Here's hoping Boris wins London

Nigel Hall (ex Labour voter)

Cardiff
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Message posted by allan at 2008-05-02 18:33:40
I dont think smoking has had anything to do whatsoever with this vote. If conservative or Liberal were in power a smoking ban would probably still ihave come into force. A lot of other European countries have either put on a ban or are making arrangements soon. The problem for Gordon Brown is that he is trying desperatley to steer a course through the rocks in a gale force storm, to which some is not his fault. He dosent realise there is a big gash below the waterline, and the gash is raising the 10p tax level to 20%, company pension schemes, and trying to be to prudent/mean with public sector workers such as Police, Nurses, Teachers and Prison Officers, who all have been treated disgracefully by you, sometimes we have to speculate to accumulate, as these are the people who do a thankless job, and can make or break your Government.The captain is is now returning to his cabin and pretty soon there will be a mutiny. He states that he will listen, but I dont think he will, as he probably realises it is to late now. What he needs is to become more visual, vocal and ruthless with the dead wood. Get somebody to go to the grass roots and identify young and very competent and talented replacements,as the Blair babes and young guns of 97, are now looking a little dowdy and frayed around the edges, and are now in the comfort zone. They are no longer electable, you see Mr Brown it is like a premier league football team, you have to keep investing in new talent to remain at the top. Do something now before you are consigned to history as Jim Callaghan the second. I have voted Labour all of my life, and I am not going to stop now, but pretty soon life long voters will be in the minority.
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Message posted by Rose at 2008-05-02 19:20:39
I disagree, Allan. I think smoking has a great deal to do with this vote. I'm sure I'm not the only active Labour Party member for whom it was the last straw. I used to feel irritated when people spoke about Labour's nanny state, but now I understand what they meant. While I'm all for non-smokers having the right to smoke-free environments, whatever happened to choice? Our smoking ban is the most draconian in Europe and shows a blatant disregard for millions of this country's citizens, who could so easily have been accommodated with separate smoking rooms or licences. And I can't help but think, what is this power-crazed Labour Government going to ban next?
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Message posted by Stephen at 2008-05-02 20:00:16
sorry,but you cant have choice for smokers and choice for non smokers. You allow smokers to choose when and wherethey smoke and you take away the choice from non smokers and they've had a long time with lots of opportunities to clean up their act and become considerate yet havent taken them. Ill tell you something else to, Ive only seen this argument here. The reason why Labour did so badly is too many people feel they are having too much money taken from them and can no longer afford to pay for a Labour Government
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Message posted by Gary at 2008-05-02 20:34:58
Hi Stephen. Sorry but your arguement dosn't really hold water. Lets take your first statement, 'your can't have choice for smokers and non smokers'. Seems to me your doing a Cameron here.You make a statement without giving any evidence as to why its not possible. For example: if a group of smokers, and a group of people: smoking bar staff/managers, desire to open an establishment purely for themselves, and it is adequately signposted like any other toxic environment, why should you not be, by law, able to do so? Are you stating that certain lifestyles are un- acceptable due to the costs on the NHS? If so, and it's a question of money, should we prohibit/ban the sale of booze? Which other lifestyle choices are you prepared to outlaw? Are you trying to protect people from themselves? The question is then from where did you derive such a right? The majority of smokers, as well as non smokers, may want or agree with the right to smoke free premises, but does that automatically mean that those choosing otherwise should be stripped of thier rights? Can the right of the upper classes to dominate politics be legislated against? Can the right of women to go to work co-exist with their right to have children? Some things have to be grasped beyond our own predilictions. I would also suggest that if this is the first place you have seen this arguement you read more or turn your TV to more programmes involving political discussion because I saw very many at the time. Anyhow, hope I've not offended you and if I have please accept my appologies.
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Message posted by Helen at 2008-05-02 20:21:21
Sorry Stephen, but I disagree. And looking at the results of the elections, I think millions of others disagree too. There are alternative solutions available which cater for all, both smokers and non-smokers alike. A sensible debate about this needs to be urgently undertaken before further damage is inflicted upon the people of this country and the hospitality industry in general
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Message posted by Stephen at 2008-05-02 20:33:57
Youcan disagree all you want,the opinion polls agree with me
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Message posted by Gary at 2008-05-02 21:06:50
Stephen you've a heart in the right place but to opt for the old my arguements the right one becuase most people agree with me is surely not your style. Simply state your point because you believe in it. It may prove unpopular but at least you'll have the courage of conviction and try and convince on the basis of your arguement. On this one, sorry my friend, I'm in the division lobby voting with Helen.
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Message posted by Tim at 2008-05-02 17:16:31
There are millions of smokers, and sympathetic non smoking friends and family, who have been dealt a striking blow by the Labour Party, who promised in their Election Manifesto to make non food pubs and private clubs exempt, then went back on their word and imposed a blanket smoking ban. I have read the document where the charities ASH and CRUK proudly go through how they even created new propaganda to persuade you, and you listened. You listened to them, even though your own Caroline Flint stated that the passive smoking agenda was weak. You say that the licensed trade is thriving. Maybe the family otientated premises with food, and those with good outside facilities are doing well, but you do know that there are on average four pubs closing every day, the traditional, small, British style pub where adults drink and socialise. Also, how can you be so inhumane and allow mental patients to suffer because they can't have a room set aside. You know it is possible. You know that you could give a democratic choice to places to have a well venilated smoke room. I will not say any more, but I hope you realise that my passion is shared by millions of potential voters, thoroughly let down and kicked in the teeth by this government.
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Message posted by John at 2008-05-02 17:11:47
As a life long labour supporter I should have realised that the party would renege on it's promise to take the railways back into public ownership way back in 1997. And now, amongst other offenses against the people of this country Labour treats me and over 14 million others as social lepers by bringing the draconian and spiteful smoking ban. Over 9 billion pounds you take from smokers then treat us like lepers. My philosophy now is: No smoke, No Vote! You should be ashamed Mr Brown.
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Message posted by David at 2008-05-02 16:42:06
Sorry, typo free comment.

I am sure the economy, the credit crunch, oil prices and the Iraq war had an effect on voting. The economy, oil prices and credit crunch maybe beyond the full control of Gordon Brown. On Iraq I believe the Labour Party acted in good faith. But what made me stay at home and not vote is something which I really do resent the Labour for and that is the smoking ban. Standing outside in all weathers, interrupting my conversation to go outside, made to feel like a second class citizen, frankly I have no sympathy Gordon for you or the Labour Party. Any political party that wishes to introduce separate well ventilated rooms in pubs will be getting my vote.
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Message posted by sheila at 2008-05-04 08:40:00
For goodness sake all you smokers. You are being selfish and not considering the health of others. If you want to smoke, no one is stopping you, but why should I, a chronic asthmatic, have to stay at home because I cannot tolerate smoke filled places. Since the ban I have been able to go out without worrying who is going to stand next to me with a pipe, cigar, or cigarette. I had to keep going outside for air, so now its your turn.
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Message posted by Dave at 2008-05-02 16:34:07
I am sure the economy, the credit crunch, oil prices and the Iraq war had an effect on voting. The economy, oil prices and credit crunch maybe beyond the full control of Gordon brown. on Iraq I believe the Labour Party acted in good faith. But what made me stay at home and not voye is something which I really do resent Labour for, the smoking ban. Standing outside in all weathers, interrupting my conversation to go outside, made to feel like a secomd class citizen, frankly I have no sympathy Gordon for you or the Labour Party. Any political party that wishes to introduce separate well ventilated rooms in pubs will be getting my vote.
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Message posted by Jim at 2008-05-02 15:22:14
Gordon,there have been some harsh lessons learned in the last 48 hours,many of which were predicted in advance. So we now have a situation that the media are crawling all over and even our own members are having their tuppence worth, most of which are looking back,but we need to be led to the future not the past, weneed something that unites us, that does divide us as a party. Onething that normally would do that is to fight to keep the Tories out, so my suggestion is that we reinvent ourselves into a political party that does attack our political opposition, that does attack the lies and untruths of what we are about, that we attack the media such as the BBC who appear to have a clear agenda to bring our government down. The party needs to become active, back on the streets talking and listening to people, we need to be the champions of the people for the people, go back to your roots and examine what brought you into the party? and bring that out into the open and be brave and promote what social justice is about, that is what the members want, that is what the people want, so start the job from today and be leader and lead your social army and bring more back into the fold.
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Message posted by Gregory at 2008-05-02 15:57:28
"So my suggestion is that we reinvent ourselves into a political party that does attack our political opposition."

Well wasn't that what Blair did in the 90's, doing away with some of the party principles in the effort to 'reinvent' and 'modernise'? And where has this got us? Billions spent in an illegal war in Iraq that no-one wanted, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of working class people, our CORE voters, walking away from the party. It is all very well of Gordon Brown saying 'He is listening and learning', but he needs to very quickly regain the confidence of this nation through ACTION and do something about the ridiculous tax burden on us all, and stop making yet more red-tape, more legislation, more restrictions on the average working man. Personally I think it is too late. The rot has set in and this administration has all the hallmarks of the John Major government, that ended up not listening to anyone and limping along until they were finally extinguished at the GE.
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Message posted by BRYAN at 2008-05-02 15:01:27
Dear Gorden,

listen good and listen hard, you and your government are so out of touch with the working class its just not acceptable anymore!
under your regime, only the wealthy can afford to buy a house, only the wealthy can afford to run a car, only the wealthy can afford to pay their utility bills....!

house prices are too high they go up 100% under labour, yet you wanna bail the banks out when they fall 2%

best thing for this country would be a 100+% fall in house prices, then the average joe worker might be able to buy an house, instead of renting one of a buytoletter (probably a wealthy businessman)

YET you insist on taxing ME and people like ME even more!!!
thanks for nothing Gorden

yours a below average earner and an above average tax payer

i will not ever vote labour again
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Message posted by Gary at 2008-05-02 21:19:01
None of my business Bryan but can I, as a matter of interest, ask who you might be voting for and why?
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Message posted by BRYAN at 2008-05-03 07:02:06
well, would probably be tory... i've worked from 1977 till now , raising 2 kids and was miles better off under the tories... and just to let you know i got made redundant under the tories once in 1994, since 1999 i've been made redundant twice. i voted labour in every general election so far!! no more tho...
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Message posted by BRYAN at 2008-05-02 15:09:19
p.s. i was a victim of crime last night, as well as about 30 other car owners in my niebourhood! gangs of youths think it's fun to slash tyre's on cars causing upwards of £100 in damage... this happens frequently in York... yet when the police are notified, they do nothing but open up an incident room dish out loads of paperwork and then go for the easy target's i.e. the poor joe who goes out once a week for a drink get's drunk and then get's locked up for being drunk and disorderly.... get real... get the old fashioned bobby back on the beat instead of some 3foot nothing straight from school on a community support costume that every teenage yobbo just laughs at!!!
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Message posted by BRYAN at 2008-05-02 15:14:36
p.p.s. my cars 12 years old probaly worth about £300 quid before anybody jumps in and says "but you said only the wealthy could afford to run a car!!"

i put about £8 a week in it!!
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Message posted by Gregory at 2008-05-02 16:03:37
I can't even afford a car or run one. I can't afford to use the trains either because they are so damn expensive. Labour was beating the drum for cheaper and affordable fares for the workforce throughout the 80's and 90's. Eleven years in government and public transport fares are the highest in Europe. What happened to the Labour promises? :(
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Message posted by David at 2008-05-02 14:33:05
You have promised you will listen.

But you have also said you will not listen to the advice given to the government on the laws on cannabis thereby increasing the costs to the whole of society.

Why don't you actually listen to the advice of professionals and most people who are not saying that cannabis is harmless but we are saying the law is more harmful and counter productive.

The War on Drugs was lost many years ago and the cost of most illegal drugs has been going down for years so a waste of everyones money. Come on Gordon tax illegal drugs, spend the revenue on treatment and education (as with tobacco) and you will solve the prison overcrowding problem over night and have more money to spend on health

A win win situation

You said you would listen so this is what i would like you to listen to.



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Message posted by Gregory at 2008-05-02 14:05:48
Quite honestly Mr Brown, you have brought all this hostility upon yourself. You don't seem to care for the low-waged by taking away the 10p tax band. Your handling of those who are disabled and unable to work be treating those who claim as potential benefit cheats smacks of typical Conservative tactics, and now the police are being trained (only two days training) to use the evil 'taser' weapon that gives a 30,000 volt electric shock to people is just another nail in the coffin of Labour becoming more like an authoritarian Tory party everyday. You have turned on your back on the traditional core of working class people on which the Labour movement was supposed to be built upon. I don't trust Labour anymore and I am ANGRY at what you are doing, Mr Brown. I will NEVER EVER vote Labour again.
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Message posted by treborc at 2008-05-02 12:24:09
I do not think people are stupid Since you have taken over power it's been one silly thing after another, you thought you could control people, you brought Thatcher to Number ten like some goddess, you did not think of the hate this women has with real working class people, because you did not care a dam about us. The 10p tax fiasco was more to do with you thinking we are dumb enough to say fine we accept the loss, because New Labour will give the money to who The RICH. No matter what you do the rich are better off at the loss of the 22p tax band.

Welfare reforms, who are you kidding, I'm disabled I've been looking for a job for five years, using Remploy the Shaw trust and the Job center, all have given up, so what this American company Unum Provident is going to do what, machine gun employers who refuse to employ me because I wet myself, mess my self fall asleep because of pain.

What do you people think disability is, if you think we have people playing the benefits game go get them, frauds need jail, but real seriously disabled people need your protection, protection so far you have failed.

You have failed the poor you and Blair, pensioners are struggling now because of the rise in council tax rents food gas water eclectic, what do you do, nothing.

Trains are now the rich persons means of travel, you want to remove cars from roads, then sort out the trains it should not be a means of making profits, it should be a means of getting rid of cars off roads by making it cheaper.

No more spin, we have had enough of spin and lies how about doing what you said make a new period make this Labour, not New Labour LABOUR.
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Message posted by Stephen at 2008-05-02 18:57:03
I am a Labour Party Member and Party activist of very long standing and I am very distressed after today.
However I have seen this coming because I have to listen to people who we won over from the tories in 1997 and who now feel betrayed.

When I first got involved in politics I was told over and over and over again,that britain votes with its wallet,not with its conscience, a politician who leaves the public feeling that he/she is bad for their bank balances will always loose votes to the politician who carries out unpopular policies but who leaves the voter feeling better off financially. Most people I know feel this way.

Right now, the very people we won round in 1997 feel under siege, but so do people who have always voted for us. Too many now feel that they cant afford their council tax and blame us. They feel interest rates and their mortgages are far to high and the recent rate reductions by the bank of England are too slow, too little and too late. They feel that tax rates are too high and that everything we do puts more of a burden on them that they cant afford. Most people I know are angry that people are paying the 40 percent tax rate on much more of their income than used to be the case, having money stolen from them to fund tax breaks for rich cronies and others. They are furious about fuel taxes and the cost of the tax discs for their cars. The changes in the last budget make them feel angrier, because they think that we are hiding tax hikes behind lies about the environment. There are many thousands who feel that IR35 and Self Assessment are dishonest ways to take more money that they dont have from them. They are angry about Niras having been taken away and the married tax allowance too, and even though the last Tory Government did those things they blame us. They are angry about Tax credits being difficult to claim and means tested too. In short the very people, who we need feel that they dont have enough money to make ends meet because we are taking it from them. We need to do something to address this, not gestures, not explanations, lectures or what they see as gimicks. They dont want to know that the treasury cant afford to give them back the money they feel is being stolen from them, because they cant afford to pay their taxes and their bills. They want Miras back, the married tax allowance back, fuel tax duty reduced, the cost of cartax discs reduced and simplified, IR35 reversed, self assesment scrapped. the 40% tax rate abolished, or at least put back to a level that it applies to the rich and not ordinary families struggling to find the money to pay unreasonable transport and housing costs. Interest rates drastically reduced, council tax reduced tax credits made automatic and not means tested. Train fares made affordable again. They are really really angry and feel that they are being robbed. If we dont do all these things quickly then we will lose the next election.

The people feel they have paid too much and are angry, talk about the cost to the government budget will only make them angrier, we wont just lose the next election, we will be humiliated. Please take notice, Gordon, you said you would listen and learn. Introduce a new peoples budget NOW and save the party, the people and the country.

thanks

Steve Bennett
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Message posted by Ruth at 2008-05-03 08:57:53
Stephen, you talk a lot of sense & the points you raise are right. How come the elite of NuLab can't seem to grasp these simple concepts? Too busy having their second homes decorated at voters' expense or working out their OTT expense claims? Or is it that they just don't care about the voters? The 'I'm all right Jack' syndrome? There's always money to bail out mismanaged companies (Northern Rock), bail out the greedy banks (stupidly, without any conditions that the banks pass on rate cuts to the public), money for charity to foreign countries (Maybe Gordon should have been a missionary?), money for foreign (illegal)wars, NO money for the genuinely financially hard hit in the UK. Tax,tax, tax again until the pips squeak - then tax again. Remove civil liberties (a criminal record for overfilling your bin like that guy in Cumbria). And then act surprised when people vote against you? You couldn't make it up it's so unbelievable. 'I'll listen & lead' - you haven't listened for 11 years - why start now?
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Message posted by Stephen at 2008-05-02 19:10:07
Niras?Sorry MIRASI think,Mortgage Interest Tax relief
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Message posted by Steve at 2008-05-03 15:59:11
Stephen, sorry you say (to paraphrase) that people vote for money not morals ... do you really think that money is the only reason Labour have done so apaulingly bad, things like the illegal war on terror, still no signs of any WMD? the new proposed changes to the obscene acts legislation to make consentual adult activities resulting in no harm to any party, that labour do not approve of illegal (If thats not the definition of a dictatorship what is?) have lost Labour the moral ground too, but yes finance is a big part of it ... My own case for example, I'm on low pay and am worse off because of the 10p cut, and because I'm not s married couple with 50 kids im not elligable for Tax Credits, I work 35 miles from work, I could barely afford the travel (train) before, I have no idea how I will now, I can't move into the area as I have massive loans to repay taken out as a student as required by the government before being able to aply for extensions to the student loan.
I'd be so much better off if I was a jobless 'chav' with no intention of ever working it's not funny.
It's so bad here, I am seriously considering emigrating to another country.
Labour need to simplify the tax system, and while I would never (especially as a trade unionist and a gay man) support the BNP, I think Labour should consider the feasability of implementing at least one part of their manifesto, which is to abolish current taxation and tax only on non-neccesities, I do not deny that this would be difficult to administer, but it seems far fairer, we seem to have the highest taxation, and the poorest living conditions in the developed world. We no longer have any support for post graduate learning and a grossly unjust system for undergrad. In short we need a sweeping review of the budget and policies.
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Message posted by Steve at 2008-05-03 16:07:56
Forgot one thing ...
I think we need to withdraw from europe, at least temporarily, they may have improved our Human Rights and done us some good, but if the expenses scandal has done anything it's bring confidence in the MEP to an altime low, combine this with the feelings (right or not) that imigrants are taking jobs and scrounging benefits, Europe is something we should not be associated with at the moment.
As I said before I am a Trade Unionist, and while traditionally as our union does, Unions support Labour as an organisation, I can honestly say I know few who support Labour as individuals.
Labour are choking the working person to death (literally - after all how can we even afford to eat) with taxes.
I have seen a house which three young professionals could barely afford and eventually had to give up, be given to a single polish mother. This is why Labour lost the local elections, they dont care about the people who are actually willing to put in the effort to work.
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